Witton Albion Reserves Lose Appeal

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1

I have just heard that the reserves have lost there appeal against being expelled from the Cheshire League.
I would therefore like to congratulate the supporters and ex director of the club who have actively pursued this for a number of years, you finally got what you wanted, no reserve team.

Unfortunately what they have acheived will be to the detrement of the club on both the playing side and commercially, and will no doubt bring some bad press in the future.

So let me clarify a few points :

  1. Most importantly Nigel Deeley wanted to have a reserve team as he felt that it would be beneficial for him and the club whether it was for bringing players back from injury, players on trial, bringing youth through etc.

  2. It had also been agreed at board level that, providing the reserves would be self finanacing this season, and would therefore not be a drain on the first teams budget, they wanted to keep the team going, and therefore MW had personally guaranteed to finance the reserves.

  3. Note the headline Witton Albion Reserves, not Northwich United.
    Northwich United did not exist, yes it was an avenue that was being looked into as it was felt that it would be easier to raise finance for a team not classed as reserves, as for years it has been difficult to raise funds for the reserves, bearing in mind the fans want them to be self financing, and irrespective of what name they were called they would allways be associated to Witton Albion Football Club. This avenue was also agreed by the board at a previous meeting, but this could be recinded at any time if it was felt it was not in the interests of the club. But the bottom line is that after exploring this, Northwich United was not going to happen due to a number of reasons.

Therefore due to the efforts of some misguided people, Witton Albion no longer have a reserve team. This will also probably cost the club money for the appeal, the portable dug-outs which were bought, the fees for Moss Farm and affiliation to the county fa.
Well Done.

2

I take it your upset Colin that there will not a reserve team next season!

Presumably you went to watch them every week and helped support their existence in previous seasons? On that basis I can understand why you would be upset by the absence of the team next season. I think on some levels it is a shame that we will not have a reserve team however it’s also a shame I don’t drive a Bentley and holiday in the Bahamas four times a year. What you may want and want you are able to achieve are sometimes different.

Wolves, Chester, Bristol Rovers, Birmingham City, Oxford United and many other clubs playing a higher level of football than Witton Albion have also opted not to have a reserve team most likely on the basis or either a) the cash involved in running it, b) the lack of benefit it serves to the first team or c) the resources required to manage a competitive side.

Practically speaking when did we last use the reserves to ‘bring a player back from injury’ or how successful has it been in ‘bringing youth through’. When did a player last step up permanently from the reserves to the first team squad? Given the lack of positive answers to these questions I fail to see how it is to the detriment of the club, “both the playing side and commercially”!

In previous seasons it has been a negative on the overall budget and not a contribution, it has not helped commercially in the past! Even the ‘consideration’ to change the name to Northwich United was at very best naive, both Northwich V**s and Witton find it hard enough to raise funds as it is without a new third independently branded team in the area (the catchment area simply is not big enough). Witton Albion has been established for 120+ years and if anything raising money off the back of a successfully marketed Witton name would potentially be easier. Maybe the motive behind a name change was to create more ‘independence’ for a new team, which would have again faced the same difficulties.

MW’s personal guarantee to finance the resources was a very gracious gesture and he should be thanked for offering a lifeline to the team. Presumably this was again being done to support Witton Albion (in bring through youth, etc) and therefore I would argue that the estimated £5k it would have cost will be much more appreciated as an investment into the first team where hopefully it will now go. Let’s not forget that fans are looking to raise £20k (4 times this amount) to enable the club to compete at Unibond Premier League level next season.

Nige Deeley and Andy Nelson with have their own ideas on how they work with local clubs (like with Neil Gill at Alsager and why not Joe Gib at Winsord) to look for local youth talent. It may be a benefit of not having the reserves that the size of the first team squad can be increased to accommodate 4, 5 or more of the brighter prospects and that further more by being able to name 5 substitutes next season there may be more opportunity for these to impress in the first team. It has previously been hard for them impress the manager when the reserve games have also been at 3pm on a Saturday!

Whilst disappointing that we will have no reserves next season, I don’t think it is ‘misguided’ to suggest the current board will make good, solid, considered decisions that they feel are in the best interests of Witton Albion as a football club and a business. If you do want to invest money yourself into the club and/or offer your services to the board I feel sure Mark Harris will be pleased to hear from you.

3

Simon, a very good post.

However Colin, I don’t think there was ever any concerted effort from anyone to “kill” the reserves. Yes, admittedly there was some uproar around the Northwich United idea but is it any wonder? I think most people based that negativity on the fact that the whole idea had obviously been discussed in some detail behind closed doors by very few people, when the correct way to approach the situation would have been to discuss it openly with the fans.

Add that to the fact that practically all of last seasons reserves are now on the books of Alsager or Halifax, and it is difficult to see how the reserves could possibly have been competitive in that league or a useful source of squad players to the first team.

If you look at it objectively, Witton Albion Reserves were a team with no manager and practically no players. That isn’t exactly an exciting proposition for anyone, players, managers or potential sponsors. Bearing that in mind, in the current situation it is probably best for the club as a whole to utilise the relationships we have with other clubs (Alsager, Newcastle Town, etc) and re-establish a reserve team in 12 months time when the club is more stable, and we are in no rush to find players, coaching staff and money!

4

While the Reserve Team is a ‘nice to have’, we also have to be practical. In Kevin Keegan’s first spell as Newcastle manager he also disbanded their reserve team set up due to it not reaping any real rewards.

The one player from last year’s reserve squad who looked like making the step up to the first team this year (Matt Woolley) has jumped ship, so again you have to ask ‘what’s the point’.

Certainly as a Club we’d be better off forging closer links with the likes of Alsager, Winsford, Middlewich, Barnton, etc etc. With 5 subs able to be named this year, then there is an opportunity for any young prospects to get first-team football from the bench. This further reduces the need to have a reserve team.

Maybe the money MW was prepared to put into the reserves can be knocked off what we ‘owe’ him?

5

:pinch: I believe that FC United of Manchester Reserves team, who won the Second Division of the Cheshire League last season, have also been disbanded, for not dissimilar reasons; the principal ones being of course the cost and also that it was considered too big a step-up for players to progress from the Cheshire League (Step 7/8) to the UniBond League (Step 3/4).

6

Not sure how or why anyone would want to support a reserve team ahead of a first team.

You’d have to question the motives behind it.

What it would have done however was to present a vehicle/opportunity to siphon money away from WAFC Ltd,in the event of a ground/forced sale, after I believe the articles of association were altered a few years ago to ensure that noone could personally prosper from a sale,BUT that another local organisation with similar aims could receive monies.

Just a thought!

Can I also ask Mr Peacock (whoever he may be)why he is so upset over the loss of a reserve team?

7

Andy,

The motives behind the whole thing look a little dubious at best.

Without pointing the finger or accusing anyone of anything, it does seem strange that in a situation where the club is so short of cash, and we (the supporters) are having to dig deeper than ever to fund the 1st team, the then chairman would readily sink up to £5k of his own money into what is effectively another club. Is the reason that the club was to potentially be renamed “northwich united” to make it self-financing or to ensure that this investment could not be redirected by the greater needs of the 1st team, should they arise? As a result, would the chairman as benefactor effectively become the owner of this new club?

Along with this, what would happen if this new team became very successful and quickly reached a higher level in the pyramid (NW Counties)? Could it then be deemed that the name “Northwich United” is more suitable and this team could be angled to take the place of Witton Albion Football Club? Especially if this could be timed to coincide with any move to a new ground. The power of one person in both clubs (majority shareholder in one, ONLY shareholder in another - for example) would make it very difficult to resist.

As I said - not pointing a finger at anyone but it doesn’t quite add up.

8

So if Witton were to fold, and therefore the land we stand on was to be sold, then by the current articles of association no individual could financially benefit from this?

However, if there was another stand-alone organisation that could make use of the land (Northwich United for example), then they could make a claim for it?

If at a later date they were to sell the land, then perhaps if they had 1 major benefactor, that individual could potentially benefit financially from this?

Is that a possibility?

9

:unsure:

10

Robbo_ wrote:

[quote]So if Witton were to fold, and therefore the land we stand on was to be sold, then by the current articles of association no individual could financially benefit from this?

However, if there was another stand-alone organisation that could make use of the land (Northwich United for example), then they could make a claim for it?

If at a later date they were to sell the land, then perhaps if they had 1 major benefactor, that individual could potentially benefit financially from this?

Is that a possibility?[/quote]

Thats what I was getting at…

11

The reserve team produced the previous manager :frowning: :frowning:

12

Reserves who?

13

eligorton wrote:

Yeah and look how that turned out!!!

14

Just rename the supporters team, self financing etc, hey presto, Witton Reserves, doesnt matter what league they are in

15

does anybody know who mr.peacock is by any chance and why is he so angry.

16

Mr Peacock - was’nt he in " Are You Being Served " :laugh:

17

No that’s Wendy Richards your thinking about!!

18

Mr P.Cock is obviously either an ex board member or someone very close to the same.Hiding behind a pseudonym (unlike me):wink:

Sounds like there was a hidden agenda.