Ok so i can understand the concerns surrounding Jim Rushe but for me its a simple no brainer, they pay up front and we let them play! We need the money and they need a base in their original town
When i was a kid and for most of my adult life Vics have always been the big team in the area, we were considered little Witton due to being in lower leagues and having less fans!
Now the roles are totally reversed, little Vics are on their knees begging at our door, i say let them in and as long as all payments are made its a win/win situation surely
Its not as if were gonna see Jim Rushe strutting around our ground unless we go and watch a Vics game! When Runcorn were here did it feel any less Wittons ground?
Scottish football has struggled since Celtic and Rangers were no longer rivals and i feel in a way not having Vics in town has had a negative impact on us! We need each other if only to moan about the other team, it was great if we won and they had lost as their was something to banter about with workmates or in the pub.
1874 were offered the same deal but couldn’t afford it, im not sure how Vics can afford it on their low crowds unless there gambling on a lot of 1874 fans coming back?
Im sure this will tear the 1874 fan base to bits, ok they formed their team in protest against Rushe but surely if Vics hadn’t been forced to travel to Stafford then many of their fans would of stayed loyal? A Northwich Victoria team playing back in Northwich at a decent level or carry on watching 1874 play the dog and duck?
Those who have expressed anger and even saying they will stop watching Witton i feel you need to think of the positives, more money for Witton, better players plus Neils not going to be biting his nails as much on a match day!
Just a quick point to WHS i think you will find 1874 get larger gates than we do
[quote=“WHS” post=55586]I will cease to give my support to the club if Vics in any form are allowed to share our ground. Any other club, fine.
WHS.[/quote]
Whilst in an ideal world i would love to see Real Madrid or Barca approaching us for a groundshare, the practicalities are that we are reliant on a team that actually wants to play in Wincham. To that end, it appears that we currently have 2 options - neither of which sit very comfortably with any of us.
However, my over-riding priority is Witton Albion and if a groundshare is the only way to improve our immediate cash-flow situation then i will accept the lesser of 2 threats - which in my mind is currently NVFC2004 Ltd.
Whilst there has to be a concern about any long-term implications of this move, the fact of the matter is that unless we urgently secure our short-term future then there isn’t any point even worrying about what the future holds.
We need a new revenue stream, there is one presented to us. I would seriously be asking questions if we did not at least consider it.
It also puts us in a very strong position to call the shots. 2012 Northwich are now petrified of NVFC2004 Ltd returning to the town. I expect they will now make us a counter-offer.
Simple economics/supply and demand - Witton hold all the cards here
So whilst i fully understand the concerns being shown (especially the moral argument), i’m in agreement with Matt here. We cannot AFFORD to dismiss this out of hand. OUR club needs the money.
The other aspect people are generally missing is the old adage of “divide and conquer” that Chad alludes to. How do 2012 justify their existence now that 2004 are back in town? Could be interesting to see if any of their supporters head back to the ranch…
A quick point to True Blue - apologies that you feel offended by CJ’s comments regarding the Barton Stadium. WInsford were very accommodating to our supporters team a few years ago, and i will always be grateful to Mark Loveless for that. However, whilst you are correct that CJ is under no obligation to attend the Barton, i would also suggest that you are also under no obligation to read another football club’s forum, and therefore be offended by the opinions of the supporters of said club. :whistle:
Interesting debate on here and on the 1874 forum. Maybe also on the NV forum, but that only operates behind closed doors. Make of that what you will.
You can guess my leanings from my user name, and I just thought I would counter a couple of misconceptions I have picked up from this thread and from WA fans on the 1874 thread … I do not have any sense that 74 fans are “petrified” at the thought of NV playing back in the area, and nor do I believe that if this happens there will be a sudden influx to WP on NV match days.
On the first point, the attitude is more of astonishment that both they and you believe that they can afford it, coupled with bewilderment that a mixture of memories of past business dealings and general moral arguments should so willingly be cast aside by WA. Personally, I can see that business is business, and that in the world of clubs run according to that commercial model these things will happen. We are not run in that manner, and if that means that our moral high ground is positioned away from the WP, then so be it.
I am saddened, but ultimately not surprised, that any commercially operated club with revenue problems will probably turn a blind eye to the provenance of any injection of income. NV have operated in that manner for enough years now so maybe they can teach your Board a thing or two about how to keep afloat in difficult times (step 1: don’t pay your tax bill; step 2: enter a series of CVAs; step 3: offer local businesses next to nothing as a percentage payment; step 4: enhance your non-football related income, to put it in words which won’t won’t land me in legal hot water; etc).
On the second point, I think all involved at 1874 are pleasantly surprised at the degree of success achieved, both on and off the field, and at the levels of commitment shown by its fans at matches (to the extent, as someone has pointed out above, that the BS attendances for 74 are marginally better than the WP attendances for WA) and - significantly - at other events etc. I realise you won’t necessarily ‘get it’, but fan-ownership does bring with it many intangible benefits which rapidly build up to an allegiance which is firmly rooted. The only thing I would find more surprising than NV managing to pay its bills would be if more than a tiny insignificant trickle of fans walked away from 74 and back to WP to watch NV. They are already making a bit of an effort to get to Winsford. Do you really think they would give up the levels of inclusivity they experience to walk back into the arms of a club which had seriously p****ed them off for so many years (something which some WA fans seem ready to do with NV, by the way, so maybe it’s not such a far-fetched idea after all?)? And those who haven’t been trekking to Stafford, Flixton etc and haven’t joined the 74 joyride are the ones who gave up on NV long before they left the VS. If they forget their disgust they felt when they gave up, they might go back for seconds at WP, but that won’t impinge on 74 support.
It is, incidentally, interesting also to see that the word “confidential” when applied to discussions between clubs, is interpreted differently by WA and 74. Almost every item of (speculative?) information about discussions/negotiations about possible future ground-sharing has come from the WA side.
Finally a word on the inter-club rivalry. Yes, I was brought up in the green half of town back in the 60s and it was drummed into me from an early age that the Central Ground was a no-go area unless we were playing there, and yes, I am still not slow to express my delight when your lot lose a game (I’ve been in a good mood a lot lately), but that doesn’t stop me, like many other greens, from expressing both secret and even open admiration at the way your club has been run in recent years and at the way you have made attempts to link up with the community. In Mark Harris you have someone at the helm who generally speaks a lot of sense. I can even understand some of your fans not approving of our move to break away from NV, though what they expected us to do instead I am not sure - the devil (transfer allegiance to WA) or the deep blue sea (continue to follow a morally and financially bankrupt football club)?
Ok, thanks for reading (if you have). I’ll leave you in peace again now.
Interesting post Longham74
You make some points which will no doubt raise discussion but one point I wish to pick up on is this ‘confidential’ thing you mention. I’ve not seen anything discussed that is not already on the public domain (although admittedly I have not scoured your forum with any great interest).
If you are referring to anything that has come from Witton Albion there has been no discussion of clubs involved in any negotiations.
A lot of different people have lots of different and valid points on this topic and it was always going to be emotive.
You lot make me laugh with your moral high ground stance, if Rushe had not lost the VS all you lot would still be watching them and not giving a fig about the finances. We are not the police or the FA they monitor and judge people/ clubs if we strike a deal with Vics it will be in our best interest.
I guess our surprise is that you choose to stay at the BS when Wincham Park may be an option and for the long term, I may have upset true blue in calling it a dump- maybe over the top but I hate watching football there always have even when it’s Witton playing. It seems the decision is made for now and we will let our board work the details out, and further our board held a meeting with all club volunteers to discuss the options so that’s where the info must have come from and a press statement released by the club - as open as it could be, don’t try to tar your past club troubles off as being the case at Witton because we are run well and openly it’s almost a fan run club as many of the active fans are shareholders as well and get a say in our club.
Sell all the players, sell anything you like, but don’t sell out to Vics in any form.
WHS.
ANYTHING AT ALL, groundshare with any club in the world BUT NOT THE SLIMEY SCUM AT FLIXTON. They should have been liquidated everyone knows that, the breakaway at Winsford would have been far more valid if the football authorities and the law of this land had done the right thing.
Pay in advance, for how long, a year, two, three…five!! That scumbag Rushe pays feck all! Oh and is that scouse **** who was promising a new stadium on the Triangle for 4 million (joke!) and all sorts of other nonsense still involved?? Remember he had to be ******* off from trespassing on our property!
NO TO RUSHE’S SCUM VICS!!!
mooney
I do hope another solution can be found but I do recognise we need cash. But I am sorry, I cannot go along with sharing anything with any club called Northwich or Vics. They robbed other clubs of success, us included by their underhand dealings and leopards do not change their spots. How on earth are Flixton Vics surviving, nay thriving on the gates they get? As for the other lot, they will die off soon enough unless we help them get back into town.
WHS
Speaking purely as a shareholder the question of ground sharing should have been put to shareholders in the first instance. Failure to do that has resulted in division amongst fans at the worst possible time.
I agree with you Eli, we should not be leaking stuff like this. Shareholders and the Board must make the decision, I just state my own views.
WHS.
I would me very unhappy and uncomfortable if anything in green played at OUR ground. It’s no from me. Let them back to town ? Why would we do that? I am sick of the only thing coming out of our club is how little cash we have.
Well im not a shareholder but go to every home game and most away games too but yet im not allowed a say where as ive heard from 3 shareholders in the last 24 hours who dont go to any games but want to stop the groundshare taking place and to hell what happens to Witton! .veryangry
Eli who?
Some folks on this topic need to get a grip. No income = no team.
The board are appointed to run the club. We can’t have a referendum on every decision.
If goundsharing adds to our success, then that’s the right answer
According to some so was forgiving Sean Tuck and look how that turned out. But I agree the Board and shareholders must decide and then supporters must decide what their reaction is.
WHS.
Apologies for interrupting your discussion on this subject matter, I just wanted to say how thoroughly excited I am at the prospect of Vic’s returning to play football in our home town, where we belong.
Vic’s rent will be Witton’s investment and next season the two biggest rivals in Non-League football could be playing in the same league, at the same ground.
2012 Northwich fans say, “you can’t have the cake and eat it”, well who wants cake when Vic’s and Witton can have their fingers in the same pie. A win, win situation for both clubs.
:clap
[quote=“Dave Dutch Holland” post=55649]Apologies for interrupting your discussion on this subject matter, I just wanted to say how thoroughly excited I am at the prospect of Vic’s returning to play football in our home town, where we belong.
Vic’s rent will be Witton’s investment and next season the two biggest rivals in Non-League football could be playing in the same league, at the same ground.
2012 Northwich fans say, “you can’t have the cake and eat it”, well who wants cake when Vic’s and Witton can have their fingers in the same pie. A win, win situation for both clubs.
:clap[/quote]
So who is this Vic?
Dear Dave Dutch Holland, how can you afford it, where is the money coming from?
Northwich Vic’s or Vics whichever you prefer.
Not my business where the money comes from, I don’t involve myself with the politics off the pitch, only on it.