I appreciate the views of various people on here. I think the moving nearer the town issue went out of the window when we had the new Council thrust upon us. The Northwich Vision seems dead in the water to me and anyway all the vacant land near the town is earmarked for Housing and retail development. The only decent bit of land I can see is the old Parks Steelworks siding near Arnold Clarks opposite B&Q failing that we are back up to Lostock again or heading out beyond Rudheath. The Deal to go on Moss Farm is a non starter.
So the Vics option looks good and always has to me. I certainly think the ground could be obtained cheaper than trying to build a new one. Then you have Vics as rentboys again and the probibilty that there will be a new urban village surrounding the ground with the chance to provide a pub/club with entertainment for the community. Also more likely to get FA grants if we have a community so as been said already Plastic pitche, a bowling green, maybe even a gym and a community centre. So the vision that Mr Worthington had of community use comes a little closer to reality e.g Mother and Toddler groups, Mature users wanting to keep fit, and of course Evening entertainment and maybe even Corporate use conferences etc!!
So if we got the ground so we had say 500k in the bank, vics renting at say a conservative £850 a game. These two alone would bring in around £1200 per week without even touching our captial!! Alls I’m saying is its worthy of consideration and after doing such a good job getting our football structure right this time perhaps the board will now push the ground move up in priority. With out current state I don’t think we can afford to wait too long and if we could increase our budget slightly e.g with the extra 1200 quid a week this might be made available the manager to help make us more successful on the field.
Whatever Onward and Upward even if we stay put!!
I believe we only have three options, stay put, ground share with Lostock Gralam and improve the infrastructure with the money we make from selling our ground or buy the Narston Stadium. Anybody any other ideas?
WHS.
Agree with you MONA about the opportunity of taking over the stadium over the canal but if it divides our support because some will not watch over there then it’s a no go.
If we do move eleswhere what sort of a stadium are we likely to have - nothing like the one we have now ?
Buy the Marston and convert any usable space into offices that can be let out, I’d rent one…after I had painted it red of course!!!
I think initially it would stop maybe a dozen or so coming to watch Witton becasue of the ground’s link with Vics but within a short time and especially if the team are winning I think even they will return to the fold. It may also attract new supporters who may come along to see what all the fuss is about, like what they see and keep coming. I hate the idea of us playing at the Marston Stadium but I am coming to the opinion we have no other credable option. In the end we go to watch Witton, where they play is surely imaterial.
WHS.
What about the current volunteers that would not give their time so freely if we bought the Victoria Stadium?
We have seen this season that once people stop coming then they are quite often lost for good.
What an awful place to watch football with a crowd of 150ish taking up 3 steps on the Danebank Stand.
Can i still keep my head under the sand?
In my ideal world i would stay put at WP and be swallowed up by houses.Is this still an option?
Agree with CJ and others,that the Marstons Arena is a very attractive proposition,i would certainly support our club in our new home.I am still very much in favour of WP,almost to the point of saying that we should never move again.
I do not think i have the goolies to make such a decision.All i will say is whatever the outcome i will be there.
Robbo_ wrote:
[quote]What about the current volunteers that would not give their time so freely if we bought the Victoria Stadium?
We have seen this season that once people stop coming then they are quite often lost for good.
What an awful place to watch football with a crowd of 150ish taking up 3 steps on the Danebank Stand.[/quote]
Is this a known fact? Has anybody asked them?
Thatched tavern wrote:
[quote]Robbo_ wrote:
[quote]What about the current volunteers that would not give their time so freely if we bought the Victoria Stadium?
We have seen this season that once people stop coming then they are quite often lost for good.
What an awful place to watch football with a crowd of 150ish taking up 3 steps on the Danebank Stand.[/quote]
Is this a known fact? Has anybody asked them?[/quote]
Yep.
You mark my words…that great green elephant stadium over t’ cut would be the death of this once proud little club! We would be better off staying at Wincham Park with residential development around us (potential new Wittoners!) than being swallowed up over there by that wretched void amongst the industrial estate!!
Crowds of 150ish - such negativety Robbo - we are going to win the league next season - it says so in the Guardian - so the crowds will be back up to 450 and above ?
Even 450 would be awful over there. If we took over that ground you’d need to knock it down and start again anyway. It’s not ‘fit for purpose’ for a Club of our size.
I don’t buy the argument that we would lose fans and volunteers as a result of moving there. At the end of the day fans support the club not the ground where they play and frankly if a small number of ‘fans’ were so pigheaded that they didn’t want to go and watch the club there then what are they fans of? I would watch us play on chinkers if it was Witton Albion in a competitive game. Equally I’ve been and watched the lads train at Moss Farm and Johnny Deans before now.
The commercial facts are that the Marston’s Arena, whether we like it or not, will probably be the last decent football ground built in the immediate area. V**** are going nowhere, can’t afford to buy it and run it, therefore it’s up for grabs. The is not a queue of people lined up to buy it and therefore they ‘may’ be an opportunity to buy and own outright (debt free without loans) a better ground than we would ever be in a position to build for ourselves. Yes it’s too big and currently green, but if we were to build something ‘suitable’ for our current level then we would end up with a pitch surrounded by a two foot high breeze block wall and a club house to accommodate 80 people, what we would build would most likely be a downgrade from what we already have!
With a plastic pitch that could generate good revenue, better income opportunities from catering and match day hospitality and maybe even rent income from what we probably be a lower league newly formed V****, then the concept has a lot going for it, not least in that Witton would own the best ground in the town and have the opportunity to be the biggest club in the town. In 5, 10, 15 years you could be building a growing new fan base that is the future of the club. Again whether we like it or not there are more 14-25 year olds walking around town in V*** shirts than red and white ones and if we want to be the bigger club in years ahead we have to take the opportunities that are available to us. Buying the Marston’s ‘could’ immediately elevate our position and be a once in a lifetime opportunity to overtake our neighbours.
At the end of the day decisions should be taken in best overall interest of the club and for it’s future, not emotional ones based on a hatred of the neighbours, if it is about rivalry then what better way than move in as owners of the ground, who’s the bigger club then! It’s bricks and mortar at the end of the day and the personality of the place is created by those involved.
Little clubs that are ran well with the right set-up can achieve things, which is why Chelsea will be going to Bloomfield Road next season. We have to have long term ambition and the restructure of the footballing activities brilliantly underlines a well thought out approach that could help change our fortunes over the next 3, 5, 10 years. Surely to aim for conference north in 5 years with 600 fans watching should be our aim, again then see who the bigger club in the town was! To achieve this if buying and playing at the Marston’s Arena makes it more realistic then why wouldn’t we want this?
Your post is ooooozing with common sense rabbit
I dont see where the miraculous income from plastic pitches comes from? The pitches at SJD aren’t used 70% of the time. There are also pitches at Leftwich and Rudheath high schools. Plastic pitches are yet another white elephant.
Maintaining that vast emptiness is what has left Vics in the position they are in now. As a shareholder i could not support a situation where Witton would follow them down the same slippery slope.
We need something that is fit for our purpose, not a football league standard ground. The fact is that in 10 years time we could still be playing at the level we are at now. We could even be playing lower. The ground move - if it ever happens - will be the biggest single decision that this club has ever made, and we need to get it right. To even consider buying that stadium just because it is ‘available’ is potential suicide. We do not, and never will, need a stadium of that size.
I like your Blackpool analogy Rabbit. I see they are looking to increase the capacity of Bloomfield Road. But, as a sensible and well run club, I bet they wont be increasing it to 15 times their average attendance…
Robbo,
I love your enthusiasm for Witton, I like to think I am as one eyed as the best of wittoners, Idont like the thought of playing there really but given the options IT must be one of the options we consider with a well thought out plan for the future, take the best 3 options available, put it too a democratic vote of shareholders and see what we get, are you saying you would not accept that whatever the outcome, if we can build a good stadium elsewhere near the town and have plenty of money in the bank I would prefer that but I just cant see it happening, so for me its stay put with debts and struggle like hell hand to mouth and probably in this league ? or buy the NEW WINCHAM PARK for the sake of democracy and fairness lets look at all the options.
CJ, the fact is that we would run at a loss at every home game if we played over there. In the long term we could not sustain that. Is that in the best interests of this football club?
Forget the rivalry for a second, and we need to start looking at the maths.
Our support is never going to peak at more than an average of 400 - 500. Even if we were in the Blue Square Prem we would get at best 700 - 800.
However, your costs don’t go in tandem with your attendance, it goes off your stadium capacity. So you are looking at hefty increases for things such as insurance, stewarding, safety certificate, heating costs, electricity, stadium maintainance (let’s be honest, at a stadium of that size we couldnt continue to rely on our little band of volunteers to fix everything!). On top of that you have still got to man the turnstiles and tea hut - which we are struggling to do now.
Yes it is an option, but a very bad one. It would cripple us.
You wouldnt buy a house with 10 bedroom, 5 bathrooms, and 4 garages would you.
If the VS is such a good opportunity, then why is it still available??
Simple reason no one has bought it - its not valuable on its own merit but is valuable to a football team, only 2 decent size football teams in the town and only one that can afford it, I think the point on finance is : we would have income from, gates, rental ?, the club house, and other sundry events and most significantly investment income from our large windfall, from this you set a running budget that is within these income streams that covers all outgoings( increased maybe but covered ) and I bet you the budget at the NEW WINCHAM PARK will be much larger than staying at current WP or moving to a nice but little new stadium, thats why we need to look at the options and as you say quite rightly get the decision right - IMO we need to grow or risk a slow death this option gives us the chance to grow very quickly the risk as you say is growing too quickly but as ever risk is maneagble and I would trust MARK to manage this.
So if there is potential income for an investor from conference facilities, plastic pitches, the social club, rent from a football team etc, then why did Connett walk away?
You would be happy to see the interest earned on any capital swallowed up by the running of a stadium that is 15 times too big for us?
And what about the maintainance? When things needed replacing, there goes another lump sum from our already dwindling capital.
The rent we get from Vics would have be at a level that was affordable to them. But what if the figure they could afford was less than the match day costs of running the stadium (as it currently is…)? So they leave, and we are left without tennants.
Any business looks to keep their running costs as low as possible. Simple economics.
Call a meeting and let the shareholders discuss it before it is too late ?